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	<title>Comments on: Manhattan Declaration: Conclusions</title>
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	<description>Standing for Biblical Truth</description>
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		<title>By: The Manhattan Declaration &#171; Truthspeaker&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/2009/12/01/manhattan-declaration-conclusions/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>The Manhattan Declaration &#171; Truthspeaker&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 09:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329#comment-266</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=290 and http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=300 and http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329 7. &#8220;The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=290" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=290</a> and <a href="http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=300" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=300</a> and <a href="http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329</a> 7. &#8220;The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave James</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/2009/12/01/manhattan-declaration-conclusions/comment-page-1/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329#comment-237</guid>
		<description>Hi Ryan,

Thanks for commenting. (We&#039;re going to have to get together soon since we&#039;re now in Terre Haute!)

Your perspective dovetails with the conclusions I came to. What you have stated is very much in line with an article I just read by Pastor Larry DeBruyn (Franklin Road Baptist, Indy) posted at the following link: 
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2009/12/manhattan-declaration.html

His point is that underlying the Manhattan Declaration is Dominionism. His article is worth a read.

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ryan,</p>
<p>Thanks for commenting. (We&#8217;re going to have to get together soon since we&#8217;re now in Terre Haute!)</p>
<p>Your perspective dovetails with the conclusions I came to. What you have stated is very much in line with an article I just read by Pastor Larry DeBruyn (Franklin Road Baptist, Indy) posted at the following link:<br />
<a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2009/12/manhattan-declaration.html" rel="nofollow">http://herescope.blogspot.com/2009/12/manhattan-declaration.html</a></p>
<p>His point is that underlying the Manhattan Declaration is Dominionism. His article is worth a read.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Doyle</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/2009/12/01/manhattan-declaration-conclusions/comment-page-1/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 04:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329#comment-236</guid>
		<description>Hey Dave,
  Thanks for your comments and discernment.
  I&#039;d like to share my thoughts from a different perspective, so please stick with me :)  

This document seems to me to be a modern day re-enactment of cutting off the ear of Malchus, and I fear we are playing the part of Peter.  The idea of a group of Christians forming together, signing a pact to flex their political muscle seems very Un-Christ-like.  Christ bent down to wash feet, he did not stand up and make demands from Caesar.
I realize this is opening a deeply held assumption, namely, the concept of how the church should relate to the culture.  Based on our actions, 21st century evangelical Christianity seems to think serving God means changing laws through elected officials.  Yet the law of Christ is &quot;love thy neighbor.&quot;
We vote for Senators that are pro choice.  We think we have served God, and yet I wonder how many of us have sought to make a difference in the life of a pregnant teen?
I can&#039;t help but wonder if the problem in our culture is the church&#039;s inability to hear Jesus saying, &quot;Stop, enough of this&quot; (Luke 22:51).  I wonder if we have become so intoxicated with the juice of political persuasion that we have lost our sober-minded purpose of washing feet?
How much money have we spent in trying to overturn Roe v. Wade?  I wonder how much more of an impact those dollars could have had if they had been sent to a Crisis Pregnancy Center instead of the coffers of an elected official.
If we desire a change in the culture, we should look to Christ.  Maybe we should start washing more feet and put our sword back in its sheath.  A law has no ability to change a human heart.  Only the Holy Spirit can do that.  So why do we spend so much time focusing on a process that has no ability to change our neighbor&#039;s heart?  And why do so many of us,according to Barna, spend the vast majority of our Sundays in a pew, and enter our grave without ever sharing the gospel with one single person?

I fear the immoral condition of our culture is a direct reflection on the church not sharing the good news with its neighbors.  So now we seek to fix this condition by seeking after human seats of power, which makes many of us unknowingly applaud efforts like the Manhattan Declaration.  It seems to me that we disobeyed one clear command, and are trying to fix the results by ignoring another clear command.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dave,<br />
  Thanks for your comments and discernment.<br />
  I&#8217;d like to share my thoughts from a different perspective, so please stick with me <img src='http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>This document seems to me to be a modern day re-enactment of cutting off the ear of Malchus, and I fear we are playing the part of Peter.  The idea of a group of Christians forming together, signing a pact to flex their political muscle seems very Un-Christ-like.  Christ bent down to wash feet, he did not stand up and make demands from Caesar.<br />
I realize this is opening a deeply held assumption, namely, the concept of how the church should relate to the culture.  Based on our actions, 21st century evangelical Christianity seems to think serving God means changing laws through elected officials.  Yet the law of Christ is &#8220;love thy neighbor.&#8221;<br />
We vote for Senators that are pro choice.  We think we have served God, and yet I wonder how many of us have sought to make a difference in the life of a pregnant teen?<br />
I can&#8217;t help but wonder if the problem in our culture is the church&#8217;s inability to hear Jesus saying, &#8220;Stop, enough of this&#8221; (Luke 22:51).  I wonder if we have become so intoxicated with the juice of political persuasion that we have lost our sober-minded purpose of washing feet?<br />
How much money have we spent in trying to overturn Roe v. Wade?  I wonder how much more of an impact those dollars could have had if they had been sent to a Crisis Pregnancy Center instead of the coffers of an elected official.<br />
If we desire a change in the culture, we should look to Christ.  Maybe we should start washing more feet and put our sword back in its sheath.  A law has no ability to change a human heart.  Only the Holy Spirit can do that.  So why do we spend so much time focusing on a process that has no ability to change our neighbor&#8217;s heart?  And why do so many of us,according to Barna, spend the vast majority of our Sundays in a pew, and enter our grave without ever sharing the gospel with one single person?</p>
<p>I fear the immoral condition of our culture is a direct reflection on the church not sharing the good news with its neighbors.  So now we seek to fix this condition by seeking after human seats of power, which makes many of us unknowingly applaud efforts like the Manhattan Declaration.  It seems to me that we disobeyed one clear command, and are trying to fix the results by ignoring another clear command.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave James</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/2009/12/01/manhattan-declaration-conclusions/comment-page-1/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329#comment-231</guid>
		<description>Karole, Thank you for taking time to comment. I think your observations are accurate. I also agree that individually writing would have more impact than signing this document.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karole, Thank you for taking time to comment. I think your observations are accurate. I also agree that individually writing would have more impact than signing this document.</p>
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		<title>By: Karole Fedrick</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/2009/12/01/manhattan-declaration-conclusions/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Karole Fedrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329#comment-230</guid>
		<description>Dave, I have read all three of your articles and appreciate your progressive discernment. 

From the political perspective, our president, senators and representatives have consistently turned a deaf ear to their constituents.  If they are unresponsive to those who can vote them out of office, it is unrealistic to think that signatures on an electronic document will have any influence over them.  At this point I&#039;m not sure anything would actually make a difference in our government, but it would be more effective if those who agree with the issues of the document would take the time to actually write letters to their representatives.  Hundreds of thousands of letters from verifiable constituents would have more impact than hundres of thousands of miscellaneous signatures on one document.  Unfortunately, that takes more time than most &quot;committed&quot; believers want to spend.  

The spiritual implications of this debate are serious and troubling.  Very few things are as they first appear to be, and it seems that many believers don&#039;t take the time to pray for discernment and then search and wait for it. Things are not going to get any easier to discern as we continue to move toward the Lord&#039;s return.

God bless you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I have read all three of your articles and appreciate your progressive discernment. </p>
<p>From the political perspective, our president, senators and representatives have consistently turned a deaf ear to their constituents.  If they are unresponsive to those who can vote them out of office, it is unrealistic to think that signatures on an electronic document will have any influence over them.  At this point I&#8217;m not sure anything would actually make a difference in our government, but it would be more effective if those who agree with the issues of the document would take the time to actually write letters to their representatives.  Hundreds of thousands of letters from verifiable constituents would have more impact than hundres of thousands of miscellaneous signatures on one document.  Unfortunately, that takes more time than most &#8220;committed&#8221; believers want to spend.  </p>
<p>The spiritual implications of this debate are serious and troubling.  Very few things are as they first appear to be, and it seems that many believers don&#8217;t take the time to pray for discernment and then search and wait for it. Things are not going to get any easier to discern as we continue to move toward the Lord&#8217;s return.</p>
<p>God bless you.</p>
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		<title>By: Should Christians Sign The Manhattan Declaration? &#171; Great Adventure Ministries, Inc.</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/2009/12/01/manhattan-declaration-conclusions/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Should Christians Sign The Manhattan Declaration? &#171; Great Adventure Ministries, Inc.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329#comment-225</guid>
		<description>[...] Manhattan Declaration (John MacArthur)Manhattan Declaration Conclusions (Dave James)The Manhattan Declaration (Alistair Begg)Further Thoughts On The Manhattan Declaration (James [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Manhattan Declaration (John MacArthur)Manhattan Declaration Conclusions (Dave James)The Manhattan Declaration (Alistair Begg)Further Thoughts On The Manhattan Declaration (James [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Adam Gislason</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/2009/12/01/manhattan-declaration-conclusions/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Adam Gislason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=329#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Very well said Dave-I am posting your blog on our website today...

Joshua 1:9

Pastor Adam Gislason
Great Adventure Ministries, Inc.
P.O. Box 35
Hackensack, Minnesota 56452
(763) 568-2144
http://www.gaminc.wordpress.com
gamincinfo@gmail.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said Dave-I am posting your blog on our website today&#8230;</p>
<p>Joshua 1:9</p>
<p>Pastor Adam Gislason<br />
Great Adventure Ministries, Inc.<br />
P.O. Box 35<br />
Hackensack, Minnesota 56452<br />
(763) 568-2144<br />
<a href="http://www.gaminc.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.gaminc.wordpress.com</a><br />
<a href="mailto:gamincinfo@gmail.com">gamincinfo@gmail.com</a></p>
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